VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 4: Cix Liv

Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Be a part of us as we welcome Cix Liv of LIV, YUR and REK. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.

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Episode 4 – Cix Liv

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that may revolutionize the way in which the world will play sports activities, work out and get match together with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field vr, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR gymnasium and produce a long time of expertise from creating among the largest health expertise firms on this planet.

They’re bringing collectively the most effective and brightest minds that will help you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Alright. Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. Now we have a VR, AR, XR guru and pioneer right here with us right now, Cix Liv. Cix, thanks for being right here.

Cix Liv: Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Preston Lewis: So why don’t we begin off, with you simply giving our viewers a fast intro into who you might be and your background.

Cix Liv: The story of San Francisco, why I got here up right here is definitely a humorous one. I’ll inform it actual shortly. Once I initially got here to the West coast, I used to be initially from the Midwest. I used to be from Minnesota, [00:01:00] Colorado, Minnesota.

And what introduced me to the West Coast is I used to be promoting pc {hardware}, and I stored delivery it again to a spot known as Metropolis of Trade. I heard that title and I used to be, like, “wow.” , like, Metropolis of Trade, proper? I used to be simply so fucking bored with how chilly the Midwest was, and I might at all times joke with my pals that sometime I’m gonna get in a automobile, I’m gonna drive to the West Coast and also you’re by no means gonna see my ass once more. And I did that. I did that someday, and I confirmed up in Metropolis of Trade, which is outdoors of Los Angeles, and it’s simply, the warehouses, proper?

Yeah, I confirmed up there and I used to be like residing in a fucking warehouse. Positively not like a heat starting to California. However really that’s once I began calling myself Cix. So, it’s not my beginning title. My beginning title is totally different. I feel lots of people, once they make large life selections, they often need to change themselves and who they have been and all the pieces. And Cix was my on-line [00:02:00] identification.

However yeah, a brief story about why I got here as much as San Francisco is I used to be working in expertise, in a rudimentary sense. I didn’t perceive all of the tech lingo and all this VC nonsense that now we have up right here. However I used to be in California on the time and I heard about this app known as Yo. And it was a push notification app, and all of the app did was once you press your buddy’s title and it could do a push notification and mentioned, “yo”. And that raised tens of millions of {dollars}. And I used to be like, “I don’t know what the fuck they’re smoking in San Francisco.”

Preston Lewis: Like a Silicon Valley, a Silicon Valley episode.

Cix Liv: They’re out of their fucking minds. Yeah, in order that’s why got here as much as San Francisco, and now I’ve been caught right here for eight years. However, that’s the story of how I made up right here “I used to be like, wow, these guys are nuts.” And I would like be a part of that as a result of…

Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. That’s superior.

Preston Lewis: I like it was like Metropolis of Trade. I might simply think about what you have been like envisioning was similar to [00:03:00] this Utopia of companies and stuff after which simply to point out up at a warehouse is hilarious.

Cix Liv: Skyrises and I confirmed up and it’s actually simply warehouses. It’s known as Metropolis of Trade, it’s the Industrial District. So positively not a rosy entrance to California, let’s put it that method.

Preston Lewis: Sounds such as you’ve had some actually experiences in California, with the Yo app, and the highway journey, and leaving all your folks behind and transferring to the Metropolis of Trade. However, inform our viewers how you bought desirous about VR. Uh, why’d you get desirous about it? What first drew you to it?

Cix Liv: Yeah, so the primary jobs I had in San Francisco have been IT jobs. So, I used to be principally fixing shit for folks; whether or not it was firms or excessive web value folks. I mounted one of many co-founders of Google’s, like private Wi-Fi.

I arrange Justin Kahn’s Wi-Fi. He in all probability doesn’t know that I used to be that Taskrabbit dude establishing his fucking Wi-Fi, however you already know, sometime, [00:04:00] sometime I’ll inform that story.

Ryan DeLuca: Nonetheless have his password?

Cix Liv: Humble first, uh, beginnings right here. So, however my background was very totally different than plenty of tech folks in San Francisco. A whole lot of tech folks in San Francisco have been engaged on cell purposes, and SaaS merchandise and issues like that. They have been very deep on that finish. I used to be working in IT stuff my entire life, both on the {hardware} aspect, or simply fixing stuff on a regular basis.

So I had that distinctive perspective. I received into VR, as a result of I used to be working as an IT man and I received entry to the DK2. So I wasn’t OG sufficient to say DK1. Sadly, I wasn’t that early into VR. So I received the DK2 and I used to be attempting it out and I used to be like, “that is actually fucking cool”, however it wasn’t fairly sufficient to get me to commit my life to it.

I attempted among the experiences the place I used to be sitting down utilizing a controller and I used to be transferring my head round. I used to be like, “yeah, that is fairly cool.” The racing stuff, I actually received into. However then I received entry to the Vive Pre, you already know, the dev package earlier than the VIVE got here out. I received the Vive [00:05:00] Pre and I had an early construct of a House Pirate Coach, and I used to be taking part in it in the lounge.

So once I moved to San Francisco, I used to be residing with fifty folks on this co-living, type of hippie-ish factor the place like folks would come collectively to attempt to survive the outrageous prices of residing in San Francisco. They might prepare dinner one another meals and stuff. So I lived with fifty fucking folks once I got here to San Francisco.

Ryan DeLuca: And it wasn’t a bunch of homeless tents. It was really a spot

Cix Liv: Positively very humble beginnings once I got here to San Francisco. However I had the Vive Pre and I set it up in the lounge there, and I performed House Pirate Coach. And I bear in mind a second the place I used to be taking pictures out the drones. And a drone shot at me, and the laser was coming in direction of me, and each single second in my gaming life previous to this… I’ve been obsessive about video video games my whole life. I like to inform folks that video video games raised me greater than my mother and father did. Which, I don’t know in the event that they’re gonna respect me saying that publicly, however Zelda raised me greater than my dad. [00:06:00] We’re not gonna get too far into that.

However, I had this second. The laser’s coming in direction of me, and each single a part of my gamer mind is pondering, press down on the thumbs stick and that is the way you’re gonna dodge it. However then I used to be like, wait a second, my physique is the controller. And I did certainly one of these Matrix strikes, I went like again like this and the laser went over me, and I got here again and it was like, fuck.

That’s the way forward for gaming. I’m the controller now. Holy shit, you already know? And it was just like the convergence of all the pieces that I believed in as a human being, about personifying your personal new identification, about physicality and about video video games all coming collectively.

That good connection of who I used to be. And that’s what received me into the house.

Ryan DeLuca: I feel all of us have that second, proper in VR, in fact everybody does like Richie’s Plank Expertise and “oh, I really really feel like I used to be falling.”

And like, once you actually [00:07:00] understand that you simply really really feel such as you’re there. And I feel it makes whole sense that video video games at all times have been a controller or keypad the place you’re pondering that you’re really in that world and pretending that you simply’re that character.

You’re clearly totally faraway from it on a flat display screen. And it’s the dream that we at all times needed. We at all times pretended we have been that factor after which swiftly VR , now you might be in there, such as you mentioned. Like the primary time you even have to maneuver and also you don’t wanna transfer, since you’re not likely positive the place you’re at in actual house, however then when you do it, it’s fairly magical.

Preston Lewis: House Pirate coach was wonderful for its time. It was one of many earlier titles and I nonetheless assume they’ve among the finest graphics and mechanics in there.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it was unimaginable. I feel the primary recreation that may get the crown for the primary health recreation in VR, I might say might be Audio Protect.

Audio Protect was one thing that our CTO at Liv completely liked. It wasn’t seen as like a really apparent use case to start with of digital actuality.

You’re carrying this factor in your face, why do you wanna run round, too? Like, even Carmack, even John Carmack, the CTO of Oculus on the time, he wasn’t satisfied in any respect on [00:08:00] energetic motion in VR. He’s like, “why the fuck would I placed on a headset and run round”, you already know?

Ryan DeLuca: Persons are gonna wanna sit down. And even the primary expertise with the Oculus, it was like an Xbox controller and it was the 2 cameras in entrance, should you solely had two. You couldn’t even transfer all the way in which, uh, in a circle. And so it did appear to make sense. And now we have the identical story, like, we heard him say that.

After which now in fact he’s speaking about exercising in VR on a regular basis with Beat Saber.

Cix Liv: The final time I see him, he’s received the forearms and all the pieces’s, like, these are Beat Saber arms, you already know?

Preston Lewis: “These are Beat Saber arms”, that’s superior.

Ryan DeLuca: In order that then led you into beginning firms within the XR house. First one being Liv. You wanna inform us just a little bit about co-founding that and the way that went and what you realized from that?

Cix Liv: , I used to be tremendous desirous about VR, after which there was this co-working house in San Francisco known as Add, which it was an amazing place for folks to return collectively.

I do know there’s been controversy about Add, however I had plenty of optimistic experiences there. [00:09:00] Particularly with some members of the workforce. The man who permitted me to be a part of this co-living house was a man named Oz. Ozran all of the combined actuality stuff on the location.

And once I met Oz, he had this inexperienced display screen room and he was doing combined actuality the place he was placing folks within the recreation and exhibiting everyone outdoors of VR what it was wish to be in VR. And once I noticed him doing that, it answered one of many largest basic issues that we had in our house, which was , “what the fuck are you doing?” Proper? In case you see somebody in a headset they usually’re sitting down they usually’re similar to, going like this, like the primary inclination lots of people had is “are they watching porn?” Like, what the fuck are they doing in that headset? ? Um…

Ryan DeLuca: And it turned out fifty p.c of the time, that was true.

Cix Liv: On your VR. I might say that was in all probability true. Let’s be sincere. However you already know, once we moved to love full physique monitoring, should you have been to have a look at somebody taking part in Beat Saber and never have any context in any respect, proper?

You’d be like, “what?” Like, “is that this particular person tripping balls or [00:10:00] one thing?” ” What the hell are they doing?” However then once you took the digital world and also you, and also you confirmed folks the context of what was occurring, it went from dorky to chill.

And I’m a robust believer that expertise shifts occur once you make one thing dorky, cool. It’s so simple as that. And so, should you have a look at the evolution of electrical vehicles, Elon Musk actually known as his line “horny”. Proper? As a result of, electrical vehicles as much as that have been like good vehicles and stuff like that, the place everyone thought electrical vehicles have been fucking dorky. Proper?

And so one of many huge issues that I at all times have a look at on this house is, how will we make this cool? After which Zuckerberg is available in there and makes it probably the most dorky shit on this planet? Anyway. Little little bit of a tangent, however Liv was capable of talk one thing that was inherently dorky and make it cool. And in addition permit folks a window into VR, so you can see what the particular person was doing in actual time.

And so, Ozwas doing this. I used to be like, “that is wonderful.” [00:11:00] After which how will we create a product out of this? And in order that turned the large query. Among the folks that I used to stay with on this fifty particular person co-op had moved into their very own condominium. Their names have been AJ and Pierre.

So that they have been my two pals. I like went to them and I principally co-oped their front room into a giant combined actuality inexperienced display screen. And I used to be sleeping on the sofa and like setting this up of their front room. And we simply received obsessive about it. I like to think about it type of like, you already know, as children you’d document your self in a cassette participant and faux you have been radio jockeys or one thing?

I really feel like we have been type of having that second the place we had this inexperienced display screen after which AJ went in there with an excellent saiyan hat on, and there was this recreation the place you can have mini weapons. It was known as Sirius Sam. And he had this video the place he would go in and he had mini weapons in his arm and he had an excellent saiyan factor.

It was simply us doing ridiculous stuff. And AJ had [00:12:00] expertise within the startups, extra immediately and how you can converse to buyers and no matter. And we received into Techstars from there. And, Liv is doing fairly properly proper now. I feel they only raised eight and a half million, and that’s the story of Liv.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s so true what you’re saying although, it’s so obscure what persons are doing contained in the headset. And should you see it even on a flat display screen, it could actually even actually be tough. We wrestle with that plenty of Black Field. Like how do you present folks? We nonetheless do, how do you present folks what you’re doing?

And we create some totally different type of inexperienced display screen kind of environments, however it’s simply so tough and such a giant downside that Liv with fixing, which remains to be an issue and folks nonetheless wrestle with that, however simply how nice it’s been to see what Liv has completed to, to assist with that.

Cix Liv: I want they’d make like a one click on combined actuality companion with a digital camera firm, and simply press the button and go for it. However, uh…

Ryan DeLuca: It’s coming, it’ll come out ultimately.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, to piggyback on that, one of many cool issues that we actually respect you doing all through your profession up to now has been taking this platform method to constructing your initiatives and merchandise. And yeah, the entire business has massively [00:13:00] benefited from these efforts. I in all probability enterprise to guess that Liv is possibly the primary piece of software program used for combined actuality movies. And I’d in all probability say it’s most, if not all, of the viral VR movies have been in all probability made with Liv software program as properly.

Black Field VR, once we first used your software program, we noticed folks lastly perceive, like “oh, wait a minute, you’re in an area” and “oh, wait a minute, you’re interacting with a machine and also you’re doing health actions?” And so, truthfully large due to you and your workforce for doing that, as a result of I feel it’s been superior for the business.

Cix Liv: Yeah. The Beat Saber stuff was a loopy story.

We have been working with somebody who’s a hearth spinner, her title was Swan. So the story of the viral occasion with Beat Saber, I don’t know if I’ll ever have an occasion like that earlier than, like, some folks say “viral” once they have like one million views or one thing. This shit hit a billion views, like globally throughout all the pieces. There was one video on Fb that hit 2 hundred million by itself. That degree of virality I’ve by no means seen earlier than, and it occurred to me. [00:14:00] We have been simply creating movies and it was often simply me, or simply some folks I do know, and I positively amp it up, however, you already know, males in video video games and stuff, nothing tremendous novel about that.

So I had a buddy named Swan and she or he went in there and she or he was similar to recording movies of herself. And we weren’t even pondering a complete lot about it, we have been similar to recording these movies after which posted it to YouTube. The primary one she had the place she had like a Jedi outfit on, after which the video that went viral was the second that we posted on YouTube. And it began taking off just a little bit, however nothing like outrageous. I fell asleep, and I awoke and I regarded down my cellphone, it was like 300 notifications and I used to be like, “what the fuck is occurring?” And I opened it up, it was like, you’re on Recreation Cease, and also you’re on the entrance of that and in every single place.

They’d taken our fucking video, and we had a watermark on the underside proper, they usually had similar to, blurred it out. I might name that second the [00:15:00] client occasion of VR. Earlier than then we have been like early adopters that thought this geeky stuff was cool, however at that second it broke out of that restricted market that we had, as a result of movies can attain everybody. I’ll at all times keep in mind that second. It was positively a mixture of a bunch of issues. And you already know, the most important studying that I had from Liv, that I take to the following firms after, which is essential for this podcast, was that physicality was so important to speaking to folks why VR was fascinating. As a result of anytime that we had combined actuality or a video of somebody like sitting there doing one thing, nobody gave a shit. However once you had added physicality and folks have been like dancing and concerned within the content material, it could, it could carry out like 100 instances higher.

The way in which that I like to consider that’s the distinction between a film and a play. So in a play, you’re not essentially seeing the facial actions of somebody. You’re type of like eliminated and farther [00:16:00] away. Um, so it’s a must to be loud and expressive. And since our face is roofed and also you’re not like speaking, you already know, the nuances of your face, it’s a must to use physique language.

And it’s the identical factor that occurs in sports activities, proper? Like once you watch a sport, you’re not their face, you’re their physique, proper? And so the most important studying from Liv that received me into understanding the significance of physicality past my very own ardour with it, was nobody gave a shit concerning the content material if folks weren’t energetic, they only didn’t care. They have been like, okay, somebody’s being dorky in a headset. No. , I don’t care.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s such a very good level. Yeah. I imply, simply the way in which you place it, the physicality. And other people like to look at folks doing bodily actions, proper? And sports activities and health. And so it’s simply this good mixture of that Beat Saber video got here out. I feel all of us have been just a little bit shocked. “What is that this factor with, like, it’s one thing to do with lightsabers and music?” Yeah, it was simply all over the place. After which that’s once we had our non- early adopter or non- VR like skilled [00:17:00] pals asking us about it. Like, “oh, that’s like recreation with the lightsabers”, you already know? And it’s like everyone knew about it.

Cix Liv: Yeah.

Preston Lewis: I feel Beat Saber owes you some royalties.

Cix Liv: I used to be in there serving to them rather a lot with advertising within the early days. I feel that the success of Beat Saber, was not essentially simply Beat Saber itself. It launched with just a few songs, six to seven songs. It was the content material that made it fascinating, after which there was a really massive modding group that got here out of it of about 4 hundred thousand folks. And that modding group made it, so that they principally took the bottom fundamentals of Beat Saber and allowed you to place no matter tune you needed in there. And I feel realistically, if it weren’t for these movies, after which subsequently that modding Discord to take care of its relevance.

After which the ultimate piece of that was that it turned the flagship for the Quest. I feel these have been the three huge, like, moments that you can say that related to the success of Beat Saber. Each, six to 9 months, there was one thing that hit proper on the proper time. It was an enormous quantity of luck [00:18:00] concerned, to be sincere. That preliminary launch was completely timed; the sport got here out, with a bunch of fanfare and all these movies; after which it turned the most important VR discord on this planet of a whole bunch of hundreds of individuals.

They really needed to begin kicking folks out, as a result of it went over Discord’s restrict. Had been creating mods with like totally different swords and songs and no matter. And that received across the copyright challenge the place most builders needed to license each single tune, which will get extremely costly. So they’d this entire neighborhood basically making infinite content material.

After which the ultimate piece of that’s when it got here out on the Quest, it transformed so properly to the Quest and, it didn’t have among the points that among the different VR video games had. Like Survios, for instance, couldn’t port plenty of their video games to the Quest due to the constancy that was essential to port it.

So there have been plenty of builders who created actually wonderful experiences who had a very laborious time porting it all the way down to the Quest. So there have been like three [00:19:00] huge issues that actually pushed the success of Beat Saber to the purpose the place it hit fifty p.c system penetration of your complete VR market. It was on over fifty p.c of all headsets on this planet, which was…

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Cix Liv: That’s nuts. That’s nuts.

Ryan DeLuca: It, it’s humorous you say that, as a result of it’s so true. Like, the customized content material, the customized songs, like, that was the most effective half about it, proper? It’s like, there was so many alternative songs and maps, like countless quantity, proper? And you can discover any songs that you simply favored and all types of loopy stuff.

And naturally folks would charge the most effective ones. You’d study new songs. There’s so many, a lot music that I had simply realized about that I’d by no means even heard about, that now I’m a fan of by that. And to me, that’s what sort of ruined it when it went to Quest, as a result of it was an ideal expertise for Quest, as a result of wi-fi, you already know, as a result of I used to be at all times planning on the Vive or the, or the Index. However going to wi-fi was simply so nice, you already know, they usually even made the 360 modes and stuff.

However, you already know, it type of leads into the following factor is, top-of-the-line elements about Beat Saber being the flagship recreation, that turned like actually the primary mainstream recreation that launched folks to VR, was the factor we at all times hear, proper? “Hey, I’ve tried this Beat Saber recreation. It was tremendous enjoyable, [00:20:00] I liked it. After which I spotted I’m exercising.” Like, it might have been another VR recreation that wasn’t actually an energetic recreation that turned the primary huge one, however the truth that the primary huge one had such an train cardio part to it, was additionally actually good for exhibiting health as a robust method to make use of VR.

So, inform us about YUR that led you into your subsequent huge factor, your subsequent firm.

Cix Liv: Yeah, so, I needed to depart Liv for varied causes. One of many causes was, is the workforce principally turned European primarily based and, I had a tough time with the thought of like, transferring to the Czech Republic.

, I hadn’t began an organization pondering I must transfer to the Czech Republic. So I made some selections to make sure that, like, my departure could be okay for the corporate, and AJ turned the CEO, which was, you already know, my roommate method again then. However I used to be itching to, do one thing once more instantly.

In hindsight, I in all probability ought to have taken just a little little bit of a break, going straight from, startup 2 hundred miles an hour to a different 2 hundred miles an hour, type of breaks you. However, I [00:21:00] strongly believed in VR health and previous to that I’ve been working just a little bit with the VR Well being Institute with Aaron, uh, Stanton? Yeah. So, I’ll give him credit score. He noticed VR Health as turning into a giant factor, and I used to be looking for a technique to work with him. And I’ll say this, we have been looking for a technique to work collectively, however he strongly believed within the efficacy of all the pieces to love an Nth diploma.

Like, we have to have it peer reviewed. We have to have coronary heart charge trackers which might be validated by no matter. I used to be like, dude, “we simply gotta show to folks that persons are fucking exercising.” I used to be attempting to determine a technique to work with him. He didn’t need to co-found it with me.

He’s in all probability just a little mad at me now, no matter, like, shit occurs within the startup world. However I made a decision to not work with him as a result of, he didn’t need to be a co-founder with me and he was so centered on efficacy of all the pieces. And for me, having constructed a client firm earlier than, proving in any respect that persons are doing one thing with the least friction doable is the way you construct a client firm, proper?

So my thesis [00:22:00] was, okay, we’re gonna transfer in direction of a headset that’s not tethered. I feel health is gonna be certainly one of, if not the most important use case. Individuals would snicker at my fucking face. Even Aaron had the identical expertise; like, folks thought we have been a joke, proper? He tells the story about how he was attempting to show to folks that VR is health and folks would inform him, “no, you’re simply scared, that’s why your coronary heart charge is excessive.” , like zombies are after you. That’s why your coronary heart charge is excessive. It’s not since you’re exercising, it’s since you’re petrified of what’s occurring. I’m fucking exercising, man. He was attempting to show to folks that it was a factor.

I didn’t need to be proved, I believed in it, proper? However I used to be simply, I used to be looking for, you already know, how will we create a client product out of this? I began pondering, okay properly, let’s attempt to clear up this in a method that’s the least friction doable.

I’m quick forwarding just a little bit right here.

So, one other particular person that actually believed in VR health, there weren’t many by the way in which. I bear in mind a gathering that I had with Oculus throughout [00:23:00] OC-6, the place I inform them, I mentioned, “hey, VR Health is gonna be a giant factor.” They nearly fucking laughed me out of the room. They have been like, “what are you speaking about?”

And I feel that is primarily on account of the truth that the way in which Fb determines product worth is predicated off present metrics that they will go right into a PM assembly and say, “hey, that is occurring, we must always do this too.” They’ve a really tough time with foresight, and I feel culturally that’s the largest downside with Fb, is that they solely function on present knowledge they usually don’t have the foresight to see how one thing can evolve into one thing.

And so, I had that have the place they nearly like laughed me out of a room for pitching VR Health. Anyway, there was one different man who lived in San Francisco who believed in VR Health, and his title was Dylan.

I met up with Dylan and I used to be like, “dude, VR health is a factor.” I didn’t need to persuade him it was a factor. And that was one of many largest points that I had with co-founding this firm, is I might go to folks they usually’d be like, “VR health, [00:24:00] what are you speaking about?”

So Dylan, I didn’t need to persuade him. And so we began, YUR from that. And we received into Enhance, which was an accelerator right here in San Mateo. Principally it was simply because I feel Adam Draper favored me, and he, you already know, like, if I’m gonna be actual, I feel that’s what occurred. He was like “Cix, I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing, man, however I’m a guess on you.” , a type of issues, proper? like Dylan hadn’t even dedicated to being within the firm by then. So I got here again to Dylan and I mentioned, “hey, if you wish to do that, we’re in Enhance now, now we have just a little bit of cash.”

So, we needed to create the least friction technique to become involved on this. So our very first product was a mod in Beat Saber. And we already had, going again to what powered Beat Saber, was this large modding neighborhood and it type of skirted round a few of these totally different platform points that we’d have. Like, might we really combine into Beat Saber formally? In all probability not. Proper? Particularly not proper out of the gate. So, we created this mod for Beat Saber and it turned extremely profitable. We began [00:25:00] principally what YUR was, was a subset, initially, of the Beat Saber modding Discord desirous to train.

And in order that neighborhood that we constructed was, initially, the bottom group, a subset of that Beat Saber modding group. And it was so fascinating, as a result of this was a demographic that nobody else ever appealed to within the health house. It was players, plenty of them, tremendous unhealthy that have been exercising by chance.

And it was nearly like Beat Saber made them really feel like, “I’ve an opportunity now to truly be match.” These have been the fellows that you simply’ve seen within the memes the place they’re like consuming chips on the sofa kind. That was our major demographic, proper? Was children who felt apathetic to even the thought of exercising.

And what it was, was a very good Computer virus that made folks have the boldness that they really might begin exercising, proper? And that was the subset of the preliminary[00:26:00] neighborhood in YUR, the subset of the beat Saber modding group that realized, “hey, I can really train.” That was our preliminary product. It went extremely properly. So then we created a Steam primarily based tracker that principally, would take your motion knowledge and estimate very rudimentary, you already know, initially into what energy you have been burning. After which it advanced right into a Quest app that you simply needed to aspect load. And we received just a little bit extra fancy over time the place we have been utilizing machine studying to estimate your coronary heart charge primarily based off knowledge that we had on coronary heart charge. However, the purpose was principally to create a Fitbit that didn’t require any {hardware}. And that was type of the underlying purpose of YUR. And, yeah, it labored extremely properly. I feel we turned the quantity two utility in Quest for a given time. Till it, uh, was de platformed.

Preston Lewis: So one query I need to ask [00:27:00] is, simply appears like you might be very related to customers by these initiatives and merchandise you’re constructing. Which I feel is admittedly essential for our viewers to listen to, as a result of lots of people constructing these experiences, you already know, folks method it from a bunch of various angles. Whether or not it’s, “hey, now we have a intestine feeling, we’re simply gonna do it”, or, “we don’t essentially want the validation as a result of we simply be ok with it.”

Feels like, from what you’ve talked about, and from what we collect, you’re the other. You in fact have the intestine feeling, however appears like you may have actually stayed near your customers all through the journey, and listened to them all through the method. So possibly only a fast little temporary hit on that, for our viewers. What would you suggest as persons are constructing the product so far as figuring out which route to go, validating the issues they’re constructing and issues like that?

Cix Liv: It’s important to have a suggestions loop together with your customers, proper? One of many issues that I did that you can argue will not be a very good factor for a CEO to be doing, and at scale that’s true, is [00:28:00] that each single damaging evaluate, I might attain out to that particular person and ask them “why?” And I’d be like, okay, “so why are you leaving us a damaging evaluate?”

They usually’d be like, “properly, the UI right here sucks”, or “it’s affecting the efficiency of what I’m doing” or “I don’t assume it’s correct.” Proper? And, I chase after the folks that didn’t like our product to search out out why they didn’t like our product, as a substitute of simply being like, “oh, man, I’m so unhappy folks don’t like what we’re doing.” Proper? I suppose the distinction between me and a few individuals who work in tech, is I get punched within the face and I simply see it as that is what I’m doing. Proper? While you begin an organization, should you don’t need to be punched within the face, get a fucking day job, sincere to God. Go get a fucking day job. And if the worst factor that’s gonna occur to you is your supervisor is gonna be upset at you, that’s a very good day. You guys know this, like, should you wanna be a founder, you may have to have the ability to like get punched within the face each fucking day and do it once more. One of many lowest factors I’ve ever had, just a little little bit of a tangent right here, is I pitched [00:29:00] throughout Techstars, and that is again earlier than anyone actually cared a complete lot about VR. And I gave this huge impassionate speech on why I imagine digital actuality is gonna be the long run.

And it was like, oh, I felt so good about myself. And the second I finished, an investor raised their hand. And he goes, “the second you mentioned VR I cease listening.” And I’m like, “man, fuck you, dude.” Like, what’s that? Such as you discredit a whole class. Like, I don’t care. Fuck off, man.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s type of loopy, we see the identical factor. Like VCs, plenty of instances buyers, they at all times speak about their future pondering visionaries, they wanna be part of like issues that folks haven’t seen but. However once you actually discuss to ’em about one thing that isn’t already mainstream or huge or that everyone else is already investing into, you’re proper, it simply doesn’t actually compute to them. And it’s the identical factor, such as you mentioned, with like huge firms. I might say it’s not simply Fb, it’s nearly all huge firms. Like, they need knowledge that proves it, and that’s actually what creates that chance for entrepreneurs is to get laughed [00:30:00] within the face. And the fascinating factor about being laughed in your face is half the time you ought to be laughed at, and the opposite half, it’s the following huge factor. And it’s at all times inconceivable on the time, with out wanting again on reflection to know, which route it truly is gonna go.

Cix Liv: I feel the toughest factor as an entrepreneur, for me, is having the ability to distill constructive criticism from assholes, proper?

As a result of generally the individuals who you assume are assholes, are literally supplying you with good suggestions. And generally the assholes are simply assholes, proper? And I feel that it’s actually laborious to differentiate the 2 generally, proper? Like, the place somebody is supplying you with suggestions, however you’re like, it’s similar to, it’s, it’s so private to you what you’re doing. You’re like, “okay, thanks, however fuck you”, you already know? ?

Preston Lewis: That’s humorous.

Cix Liv: Like immediate…

Preston Lewis: That’s my child.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it’s like your child. It’s like somebody getting in and being like, “man, your child’s ugly.” And I’m like, “properly, it’s my child?”

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah. “What’s flawed with you?” That’s humorous. Yeah.

Ryan DeLuca: Then years later you look again at photos, you’re like, “man, that child was type of [00:31:00] ugly.”

Preston Lewis: That particular person was proper. That particular person was proper.

Ryan DeLuca: I suppose, I imply we’re joking, however like, it kinda is true. You look again on the enterprise you had, like, once we first got here out with Black Field, the onboarding expertise was simply not good in any respect. However, like, we simply liked it a lot, after which once we first began getting suggestions, folks have been saying so many damaging issues. And naturally the primary response you wanna have is, like, “they’re flawed” and like all these items. However then, you sleep on it and you concentrate on, okay, we have to make these modifications, and it’s plenty of laborious work to make modifications, however then you definitely return and also you make these modifications.

Then you definitely look again at your child, on the time, and understand, like, yeah, that wasn’t good. And, and hopefully that’s at all times the case. Hopefully you look two years from now and at all times have a look at what you’re presently doing and say it was not almost nearly as good as it’s now. In any other case, you’ve been stagnant and hasn’t transfer ahead. Haven’t listened to that suggestions.

Cix Liv: I feel listening to your customers is totally foundational, as a result of should you discuss to your folks, they’re at all times gonna offer you a optimistic spin, or often or generally you simply have a buddy that shits on all the pieces, proper? And so your folks are often actually not a very good proxy for whether or not or not what you’re doing is sweet. And household is even worse. , household’s both [00:32:00] at all times gonna be damaging or at all times gonna be optimistic, relying on in the event that they assume you’re getting cash or not. Proper? So that they’re, they’re horrible for suggestions loops. After which your co-founder, you’ll be able to consistently be overly optimistic, since you each imagine in the identical issues.

So that they’re often additionally not a very good proxy. How do you get out of the bubble that’s your mind, into market actuality? And the market actuality often simply exists with the folks that use your product. And getting them to truly talk and inform you is, I feel probably the most helpful type of suggestions should you’re constructing a client firm. Attending to the folks that like your product or don’t like your product and “why.”

Preston Lewis: A bit of comply with as much as that’s, do you may have any small suggestions so far as the way you go about intelligently gathering that suggestions? Or is it simply straight up scouring the Fb posts, establishing a Discord? Or do you may have particular issues that you simply do, for instance, create surveys, do focus teams, or how does that course of go for you with gathering the suggestions?

Cix Liv: [00:33:00] In case you talk with an individual, like, immediately, it’s type of just like the distinction between speaking to somebody by 4Chan and speaking to somebody by their face. Like face-to-face, proper?

should you’re on 4Chan, you’re gonna shit on all the pieces. It’s nearly like straight from mind stem to face, proper? Like “this fucking is horrible, that shit blah, blah, blah, blah.” After which once they discuss to you, they’re gonna be like, “properly, I feel it’s best to, you already know, enhance this” or no matter. Proper? So, I feel it’s getting each of these views, proper? As a result of what you miss once you’re chatting with their customers are those that didn’t even care sufficient to speak to you, proper? Normally the customers that you simply’re speaking to are someplace between precise customers and professional customers, proper?

And also you’re often getting not plenty of the suggestions of the folks that simply turned immediately, proper? They don’t wanna fucking reply to you. They don’t give a shit, they don’t need to inform you what their expertise was. So that you’re gonna have a blind spot on that class [00:34:00] of potential customers, proper?

So for these, you’re gonna need to, like, discover it anecdotally by like Fb posts or dangerous evaluations, and for this reason I might at all times chase the dangerous evaluate folks. In case you’re constructing that client product to grasp what’s churning folks from the start and, what enhancements can I make for these informal customers after which, the professional customers, ought to we cater to them or not, you already know?

So I, I feel that getting these three views and possibly bucketing folks in these three issues, is an effective technique to iterate in your product.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Thanks a lot for that Cix. In order that’s all for this episode, we determined to separate this podcast into two episodes as a result of Cix had a lot great things to share with you all. So be part of us for half two of this episode, the place we’ll dig deeper into Cix’s upcoming XR mission and we’ll hear extra of his superior insights. We’ll see, on the following episode.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Are you aware of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t overlook to e mail [00:35:00] us at podcast VR health insider.com and comply with us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. It’s also possible to be part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, hold creating and dreaming up the following huge factor that may revolutionize the world of health.