VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 3

Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Be a part of us as we welcome Joshua Kozak of HASfit and Loodo. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.

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Transcript: 

Episode 3 – Joshua Kozak

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match together with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field VR, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR health club and produce a long time of expertise from creating a number of the largest health know-how corporations on this planet.

They’re bringing collectively the most effective and brightest minds that can assist you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Immediately we now have a digital health business pioneer, Josh Kozak. Josh, thanks for being right here.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, it’s a pleasure, honored, particularly being an early visitor. We’ll look again on this in a pair years from now and this can be bragging rights.

Preston Lewis: Heck yeah, man. Made it.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. Yeah. Think about being one of many first Joe Rogan visitors? That’s gotta be fairly cool.

Joshua Kozak: There we go.

Preston Lewis: So,simply to kick it off, why don’t you simply give our viewers a little bit fast intro into who you might be and inform me a little bit bit about your background?

Thanks Preston. As you mentioned, my identify is Joshua Kozak. I’ve been [00:01:00] within the well being and health business for twenty years now. however, uh, you already know, within the final thriteen years or so, strictly on the digital aspect. I used to be early to train streaming again when your important choices have been DVDs.

We began streaming again in like 2010, 2011. That’s led to over a billion exercises streamed over the past decade. After which in 2014 we have been early companions with Android Put on and Apple Watch, and began constructing good watch apps, leveraging the movement sensors and the apps to launch a set of apps that might observe human motion from sleeping to train, et cetera.

That resulted in acquisition provides from three of the highest 4 good watch producers on the time. After which most lately, in 2018, partnered with a big healthcare firm to begin a healthcare slash wellness slash health firm. Sort of the convergence of therapeutic train in healthcare.

Joshua Kozak: And, we bought that in January 2021, and now I’mlooking in the direction of the following [00:02:00] frontier, which is why I’m right here becoming a member of y’all.

Ryan DeLuca: You’ve been in so many alternative elements of health and know-how and utilizing completely different applied sciences, it’s simply wonderful while you hear like a billion exercises served. So a billion coach Kozaks on the market. Many exercises.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, I do know. It’s sort of bizarre, particularly as a result of it’s like I don’t get to see them head to head. So it’s all simply shot in a studio with only a couple folks standing there. It’s not likely till I am going out into the true world and get the privilege of assembly some folks which might be following the exercises, that it turns into actual.

Ryan DeLuca: Yeah, little doubt.

Preston Lewis: All of your followers.

Inform us extra about HASfit, so a little bit bit extra about, what’s it? How’d you begin it? Why’d you begin it?

Joshua Kozak: Properly, due to HASfit, I’m formally like an E-list movie star, I believe a little bit longer and I’d qualify for Dancing With the Stars.

I’d be out within the first spherical, I can let you know that a lot. , with HASfit, we’ve delivered full size house exercise movies and we’ve at all times used YouTube as a high of funnel. So folks discover us by way of YouTube after which they transfer downstream to our personal merchandise, which is our cell apps, our good TV apps and our web site.

We actually serve nearly each demographic [00:03:00] and modality you possibly can consider.

And so people who don’t know, it’s mainly streaming exercises with Josh. And your spouse, proper?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, my spouse and I, we lead ’em collectively. I received began alone. So truly earlier than I met her. Um, and you already know it’s humorous, the viewers was like ninety % male at the moment, proper?

After which I introduced on her and it was like the proper ying and yang mixture. And now we’re like fifty-fifty, and it simply makes all the pieces higher and simpler.

Preston Lewis: That’s so cool.

Ryan DeLuca: So superior. So, inform us a little bit bit extra about what you realized. Such as you clearly, such as you mentioned, you don’t see straight the folks which might be doing the exercises, however I’m positive you get a variety of suggestions.

What kind of suggestions do you get? What have you ever realized in regards to the health shopper by means of these streaming companies?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, rather a lot, but it surely’s solely a thirty minute podcast, so I’m gonna attempt to hold it brief. I’m gonna attempt to hold it brief and candy. one of many greatest advantages that we now have is basically simply the connection that we’ve been capable of construct with the viewers, in that, they actually respect seemingly having us being of their front room. It’s one of many greatest add-ons that we now have. We attempt onerous to be personable and actual,and never like a faux character placing on a present, however any individual’s like “Oh, my legs are literally burning too.”

Like, “Oh, that is [00:04:00] truly onerous for me.” Like, “Oh, shoot, I simply sprained my hamstring in the course of the shot.” Or no matter. So, simply being actual and real. However then, I believe the opposite factor, too, simply understanding thatso many individuals have limitations which might be getting of their manner from exercising. And that might be issues like, full-time jobs and duties with children, to bodily illnesses, et cetera. So, you already know, we wanna reside on this world the place we really feel like, “Oh, all you gotta do is as straightforward as stepping on the market and hitting the play button.”

However, everyone has all of these items which might be always pulling at them, pulling them away from being to perform their health targets.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s fascinating with the ability to have that connection, such as you mentioned, and simply figuring out that the exercise is there, like they only have to press play and do the exercise. And also you hear from the folks that do the exercise, however what we don’t hear from are the folks that didn’t press play they usually didn’t stream that exercise that was there. And so it’s fascinating, such as you mentioned, there’s a lot in folks’s lives which may maintain them again from that. What have you ever seen that works for that shopper? What doesn’t appear to work for them? And, extra about that.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, I believe, simply from the enchantment of getting simply accessible house exercises, you already know, it removes a variety of the [00:05:00] limitations to entry. The power to say: “Hey, I don’t should look presentable to go to the health club. I don’t have to fret in regards to the commute.” We have now a variety of younger dad and mom, you already know, like, “Oh, I put my little one down for a nap and I’m gonna hit a fast thirty minute exercise, whether or not they sleep within the different room or whereas they’re within the room, I’m gonna work out.”

And so for HASfit’s viewers, it’s actually about simply the simply accessibility and identical to with the ability to hit play at any time with no excuses each time they’ve ten to thirty minutes of their day. And so the folks which might be profitable, are the folks that construct that behavior to search for these moments and get that exercise in.

So it sounds such as you’re proper there of their front room. You’re talking to the buyer in a very natural, approachable manner, which once we checked out your movies prior to now, it undoubtedly has that actually approachable feeling to it, which I believe is nice for folks.

As a result of, I imply, as we all know, lots of people are intimidated by health normally. So it’s superior that you just’ve approached the intimidation issue by being actual in your finish. However then additionally, as you talked about, decreasing the friction, which will increase adherence and issues like that. Tremendous cool.

Joshua Kozak: Precisely. Yeah.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s truly an fascinating level, too. Typically while you see skilled [00:06:00] streaming instructors, like Peloton instructors or Apple Health instructors, folks appear to assume they’ve this like good life and it’s, “Oh, they’ve good motivation and it’s easy for them.” And “If it was my job to work out all day, then I’d be in form.” And it’s actually onerous to narrate to folks like that, though behind the scenes these folks have simply as many struggles, if no more than lots of people. However, it’s good to have any individual that appears extra actual that folks can relate to, like Preston was saying.

That’s one of many issues that’s incorrect with the health business as an entire, is there’s thismisconception that you need to be good. That each one these folks’s our bodies are good, 300 and sixty 5 days out of the 12 months.

Joshua Kozak: After which should you’re not that, “Why am I even making an attempt?” And “If I can’t work out seven days every week for an hour a time, then what’s the purpose?” However that’s not actual world, that’s not actual life. We’ve been profitable in being extra real and genuine.

I believe I received my first like weight set at 13 years outdated. I’ve been exercising since then. I’ve to, like,inspire myself and provides myself a pep speak. I’m gonna work out later right now and I’m gonna want, give myself a little bit pep speak earlier than I do.

You dovetailed proper into the following query, so I gained’t spoil that one. [00:07:00] However,I simply wanna take a fast second, as a result of our viewers are the builders as effectively,creating these items. So I believe one sort of pin to place in it’s, that word that a variety of creators, after they really feel like they wanna create one thing nice on this business, they assume that it needs to be this loopy excessive manufacturing worth. After which, talking of friction, not solely on the health aspect, however friction on the creator aspect, you’re identical to, “Ah, crap, I don’t have the money to get this fancy tools or the money to do that loopy studio”, or no matter. So I believe that’s the opposite factor, other than serving the shopper, one of many cool issues that it appears you’ve finished with the HASfit stuff is simply saying, “Hey, I’m simply gonna use the tools I’ve,and get it on the market as a creator and serve the audiences as shortly as doable as effectively.”

Preston Lewis: So I believe that’s a very good word to indicate folks that you just’ve actually confirmed the lean, speedy, manufacturing side as effectively.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, simply to observe up with that, briefly. I received began with 100 {dollars} Canon Energy Shot digital camera that I picked up. It was, like, not a camcorder, like a digital digital camera for these older people listening that keep in mind these earlier than we had smartphone to take them.

It could actually solely shoot ten minutes at a time. So I might shoot ten minutes, after which it will go off, after which I’d should [00:08:00] restart and put all the pieces again collectively. All that to say, I believe, persons are coming should you will be your actual self and be somebody that they will relate to. They’re gonna present up for that over high quality lighting and 4K video.

Preston Lewis: Yep.

Ryan DeLuca: Very true. Yeah, so on that word, like we talked about, what do you see as the largest downside with the health business right now? We sort of talked about a little bit bit in regards to the problem, and the folks that appear to be good and we’re being as natural as doable. However, in health normally, and present health corporations, there’s an entire bunch of stuff on the market, so many streaming companies, so manygyms, and several types of exercises, and several types of tools and wearables. There’s so many issues, however but, we’re extra overweight and we’re extra outta form than ever. And we at all times speak about that stat of eighty plus % of individuals aren’t capable of stick with a health program, even with all these choices.

Why do you assume that’s? What does the health business get incorrect right now?

That’s an amazing query, you already know, and it’s identical to you talked about, I imply, a whole lot of thousands and thousands and billions of {dollars} going into startups making an attempt to resolve this downside, and we’re not any nearer to reaching it.

Joshua Kozak: And once I take a look at the business and what issues they’re making an attempt to resolve for, they’re making an attempt to resolve for training, they usually’re making an attempt to resolve for like self quantification or metric monitoring. [00:09:00] Proper? Like new trackers, et cetera. However, should you truly converse to folks, that’s not the issues they’re experiencing.

Individuals aren’t not exercising trigger they don’t know what’s good for them. By now, everyone is aware of. Like everyone at each nook of the planet, they know they need to be exercising. That’s not a secret, you already know? So, the training aspect, it’s like, what are we doing right here, people?

After which, the self quantification aspect actually solely helps these which might be doing all the pieces else proper. And that’s gonna give them like that high two to 5 % edge in enchancment. And that’s nice in case you are already getting eight hours of sleep at night time, you’re already consuming all, you’re getting your entire vitamin, you already exercising, you’re already getting all of yournon-exercise exercise in.

However, that applies to so few folks. And so, while you truly like starttalking to folks, it actually boils down to love threethings.

They lack motivation. Why train? Like, I don’t have the motivation to get began.

They lack consistency. They get began they usually give up, after which there’s no, they’re not going for any prolonged time frame. It’s on and off the wagon, is what I hear on a regular basis.

After which, fairly frankly, they discover train boring. Which is why we’re right here having this dialog right now. It justdoesn’t curiosity them. It’s like [00:10:00] operating on the treadmill. The varieties of modalities that we’ve put collectively usually are not pure for us and our human brains. , like, what are we working in the direction of right here? And they also, all variety ofcompound into the opposite overlaying downside, which is it takes a very long time to see outcomes in terms of health.

So, as a result of we’re not seeing outcomes, we lose motivation, we lack consistency and train is boring. However these a whole lot of thousands and thousands of {dollars} aren’t going into fixing these issues. They’re going into like excessive tech, which is cool. I really like tech. I’m a technologist, however I like tech that solves an issue, and I don’t assume we’re fixing that downside. Proper now.

Ryan DeLuca: Nice factors. Couldn’t have mentioned it higher.

Joshua Kozak: Come down from my soapbox now.

Ryan DeLuca: I believe we’re all on that soapbox. It’s a giant soapbox. There’s a variety of room.

Preston Lewis: To transition a little bit bit, you talked about HASfit. You have been early within the area, you bought scrappy with the precise manufacturing of issues, quickly created worth for a rising shopper base. You have been capable of scale back the friction of going to the health club, not even having to go to the health club, however with the ability to get that health club slash health expertise within the consolation of your personal house.

And have been you doing this [00:11:00] earlier than the P90X days or in the identical time?

Joshua Kozak: P90X had been round. They’d launched P90X and Madness, have been there two merchandise. That was earlier than that they had an entire suite, you already know, at thetime it was simply the 2 DVD choices. Yeah.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, so that you’re creating this content material tremendous early, as you talked about, you’re a technologist, utilizing the instruments you had at your disposal. Proper? Even when it was a crappy little camcorder or no matter, you simply went out and grabbed the tech and went after it. And it seems like,and we’ll get into this a little bit bit later within the present, however you’re beginning to do this together with your subsequent enterprise.

However what sort of began to get you particularly in VR and AR, and a few of these different newer applied sciences which might be coming?

Joshua Kozak: You sort of alluded to it already, butmy methodology all alongside has been to say, “What applied sciences are approaching, what traits are approaching which might be what we are able to leverage to assist get folks shifting.”

And you already know, the opposite factor I might add to what you simply mentioned about HASfit, is it was bandwidth enhance. It was simply at that time limit that bandwidth was quick sufficient to assist streaming video. There’s a purpose why Netflix began with mail and never streaming, proper?

It’s just like the speeds simply weren’t there. And so now we’re [00:12:00] coming into one other paradigm shift, the place there are new applied sciences approaching which have the chance to make train extra enjoyable, proper? I see that being the largest downside once I look again at my expertise, and the place I’ve been, and the place we at the moment are and the place we’re headed. Is, what can we do to make train extra enjoyable?

And, you already know, VR, AR, and a number of the new applied sciences are creating alternative to not solely make it extra enjoyable, however then decrease that motivation threshold required to get shifting. It’s only a logical reply and subsequent step inwhat we are able to leverage, in comparison with the place lots of people are going proper now, simply going again to the final query, which is enchancment in sensor know-how. Which is nice, however that’s solely gonna assist the 5 % which might be already doing all the pieces else proper.Do you’ve any kinda magic moments while you first tried VR, and also you’re like, “Okay, wait a minute, this can be a completely different tech, that is gonna be insanely highly effective”?

Yeah, that’s a very good query. I don’t wanna say I’ll wish to teardown different folks’s merchandise, however like, once I attempt VR health merchandise I’m like, “Hey, that is actually cool, however man, I might do that, I might do this, I might do that completely different.” And so, I believe for me it was getting in after which [00:13:00] seeing the alternatives on what I at all times to look and steal or borrow what persons are doing proper, after which enhance on the place I believe I can enhance.

What received thrilling was once I mentioned, “Look, listed below are the VR fitnessgames and functions that exist already, and actually, I believe there’s a lot room for enchancment.” However they’re already participating folks. So it’s like, “Wow, in the event that they’re working proper now like this, think about if X, Y, and Z have been to occur?”

So to me, that’s the thrilling half, is to see like how a lot is left, proper? How a lot enchancment is left.

Ryan DeLuca: I imply, on that word, like, I believe we sort of all agree. Proper? We play sure video games like Beat Saber or different sort of related ones. It’s like, there’s one thing actually magical that occurs in VR, the immersive a part of it, and like, actually being into these experiences.

However, there does appear to be a lacking piece. And what we at all times sort of speak about is that development piece. Video games do such a very good job of making these compulsion loops that make you need to come again, and also you’ve invested time into this sport, and also you’vecreated issues within the personalization and the aim setting. Which a variety of the present experiences are fairly one dimensional; it’s simply do the exercise, do the exercise, and there’s way more that connects all of it collectively.

Preston Lewis: Good level. I imply,piggybacking on that, too, what you might be seeing [00:14:00] is, in fact everybody goes on the market and borrows patterns and learns new issues from new video games and this, that and the opposite.

It’s fascinating to see,we’re within the sort of early days of VR health, however it’s fascinating to see lots of people are going out and barely tweaking experiences, proper? Versus, and once more, we’ll get into your your, stuff, butit’s simply one other sort of ” slash sport”. Yeah, precisely.

Preston Lewis: So,actually to speak about what you bought developing. However, very last thing on the VR, AR aspect, are there any experiences there that you just’ve seen are the most effective ones on the market, particularly for VR, AR health?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. I promise I’m not being paid to say this, however to me, Black Field VR is basically setting a bar fairly excessive.

Simply so it doesn’t sound like this can be a paid promo, I’m gonna articulate in my very own phrases “why”. So it’s the differentiation between a gamified health expertise versus a health pushed sport. And I believe that’s a very vital distinction, as a result of what you see most individuals available in the market doing right now, is that they’re simply taking regular train health after which they’re including factors, leaderboards and badges to it.

However that’s not a sport. You’re gamifying health, but it surely’s simply nonetheless health. In contrast [00:15:00] to what Black Field VR is doing, which is, a sport that occurs to be pushed by the health that you just’re doing. I might play Black Field VR with a management in a standard manner, the place you may’t say that about most VR health video games which might be simply utilizing, like, regular actions and simply including factors to it.

Sothat’s what excites me, is that potential to take it to the following stage and never simply be a copycat arm swinger, rhythm sport like a number of the tasks on the market.

Ryan DeLuca: It undoubtedly wasn’t a paid promo. However, what’s your Venmo once more?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah, precisely.

Ryan DeLuca: You nailed it. I imply, that’s what’s our whole aim from the very starting. It’s like, how do you make it truly a enjoyable sport first that you just’d need to play and itch to return again, and thenadd on the health side to it from there. Be sure that it’s an efficient health program, in fact, as a result of I’d a lot fairly simply play the controller if I’m not gonna get the health outcomes from it. So that you gotta just be sure you’re getting either side.

Joshua Kozak: In fact, yeah, in fact. You gotta have each represented.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, superior. So once more, you’ve received all this historical past within the health area, a pioneer, you’ve tried all these VR, AR experiences, sort of been gathering these patterns, seeing how one can construct your personal product. And now you might be beginning a brand new [00:16:00] immersive health firm known as, is it Loodo?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. Loodo. Loodo with a distinct spelling in Latin is to play. So I simply sort of switched up the spelling there.

Ryan DeLuca: I used to be questioning should you use that.

Joshua Kozak: I wanna construct the Fortnite of health, which, you already know, is an bold aim. However you don’t accomplish giant ambitions with out having that aim. To begin, it’s only a cell health sport utilizing your physique because the controller. Utilizing laptop imaginative and prescient know-how to trace your physique and the actions that you just do and provide you with credit for these actions. And so, the play’s sort of amix between an limitless runner sport and a task participant sport the place you’ve periods, ranges, quests, and periods begin at 5 minutes a bit.

Cool. We noticed the video submit, I believe it was on Twitter or one thing. We noticed it pop up, appears tremendous compelling. So, why begin with cell?

Joshua Kozak: , this was like one thing that I toiled with for fairly a while. And, proper now it’s, accessibility, is what it it comes right down to.

, there’s the price ofVR headsets, after which there’s nonetheless some movement illness challenges for some customers. After which the monitoring necessities that I would like.We’re like, early, you already know,iPhone one section of the {hardware} improvement lifecycle. [00:17:00] So for me,I’ve chosen to get the sport on the market and have the ability to present a really related expertise to what I’ll ultimately have the ability to ship in AR, VR, however by means of cell, and get and speed up my studying.

So this fashion I can get it out, I can begin studying, after which when the time is true, we are able to port the sport over to AR, VR. After which I sort of alluded to it earlier, however the most effective analogy I’ve is the Netflix’s technique, proper? I imply, identify d the corporate Netflix, they didn’t identify it Mailbox Flick.

That was at all times the plan, however they needed to watch for the know-how to mature sufficient. It began simply mail order, after which it was largely mail order with like a fewstreaming choices, once more, as they waited for bandwidth to catch up. However then when bandwidth caught up, increase, they have been in place to take off.

Joshua Kozak: So if I have been to say “What playbook I’m, making an attempt torun proper now?”, that’s the playbook.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, that’s good. And once more, fast level to theaudience, all of this creation’s set within the context of what applied sciences can be found. What you’re doing is mainly you’ve this concept of, okay, the VR, AR business is gonna be tremendous highly effective.Sort of lean startup smart, utilizing what you [00:18:00] have, studying as shortly as you may, to iterate on the expertise. That’s actually good. So, should you wanna speak about what issues is Loodo fixing for?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. , one we talked about earlier than. The low hanging fruit, which is the motivation and consistency aspect, proper? Making an attempt to eradicate thecognitive necessities that train locations on people at this time limit.

ButI’ll spend just a bit longer speaking about two others that possibly aren’t as apparent. One is younger folks. In our early buyer analysis we havea lot of youthful people which might be tremendous inquisitive about what we’re doing. And we now have a variety of dad and mom of younger folks inquisitive about signing up on the wait record for his or her children, as a result of they’re like, “My children play too many video video games and possibly this can be a manner I can truly get them to maneuver.”

After which children have an interest as effectively. So, you already know, like us older fellows which have been lifting weights and doing issues a standard manner for fairly a while, it’s a little bit more durable to show an outdated canine new methods. The place the newer technology doesn’t have established habits but. So with this younger new technology I don’t have to vary behaviors which will exist already. After which,the opposite factor that stood out in ourresearch is brief bouts of motion all through the day.

Loodo [00:19:00] can work two alternative ways. So once more, the degrees are 5 minutes. So you may both take part in six back-to-back 5 minute ranges, and do a thirty minute full physique exercise. Or, should you work out of your desk all day, like, you already know, the three of us do, proper? And like, “Oh shoot, my again doesn’t really feel good. I received 5 minutes in between conferences. what? I wanna hold my streak alive.” You’ll be able to flip Loodo on, knock out 5 minutes, get your factors, get your streak going, and get again to your desk. So it additionally works for brief bouts of motion that may be added to any individual’s current exercise routine with out essentially having to exchange it as effectively, simply to assist them get extra motion in all through the day.

Preston Lewis: Good. So, folks that can profit are, would you say variety ofthe basic inhabitants, or would you say particularly the youthful, early kinda adopters not having to vary their behaviors and issues?

Joshua Kozak: Yeah. , I’m a giant fan of Present Me, Don’t Inform Me. And proper now I solely have Inform Me information. I don’t have Present Me information. However all of the Inform Me information says that it’s truly a very big selection. We have now folks on our wait record from twelve years outdated as much as eighty years outdated. Yeah, I imply,I’ll provide you with a stat.

Fifteen % of the folks on our ready record are between sixty to eighty years outdated. So yeah, you already know, it’sa downside [00:20:00] that folks have all throughout the board. And so whereas, sure, I’m actually seeking to seize, that eighty % of the folks that aren’t exercising frequently. The opposite perception that we’ve realized is folks which might be exercising frequently, they don’t essentially love what they’re doing. Yeah, they’ve constructed that behavior, however that doesn’t imply that they’re having fun with it, you already know? In order that they’re in search of one thing to maintain it recent and never boring, or additive to what they’re already doing, simply to get extra motion all through the day, or on off days.

Preston Lewis: True. Good level. Properly, so what particularly makes Exergaming so highly effective, proper? So that you’re you’re particularly going to Exergaming, what are you seeing because the issues that make it so highly effective?

I sort of alluded to this earlier, however I believe it’simportant to double down on it, which is that it’s not simply including factors, badges on the leaderboard.

Joshua Kozak: That doesn’t make it a sport, if you’ll. So as a substitute, it’s all of the behavioral design components which might be gonna make that optimistic affect. It’sthe craft of deriving all of the enjoyable and interesting components present in video games, and making use of them to train, in order that persons are pulled into train versus having to be pushed into.

, that’s a keydistinction. I discussed having to go get a session in later. [00:21:00] I’m gonna should push myself into that. It’s not like being pulled into it, like the place I am going do a thirty minute XBox session. Like these are two completely various things. To me, that’s what makes it so highly effective, it’s that push versus pull.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s such a very good level. We speak rather a lot at Black Field in regards to the hooked mannequin, how folks create habits round new merchandise. And also you probablyheard of it, the e book by Nir. It kinda made me take into consideration what we talked about earlier with HASfit is, you mentioned, “You don’t know the place they’re earlier than they press play in your video.” Proper? Immediately’s video, you solely know them after they hit play, after they did the exercise? And there’s not a lot stepping into between all of that, proper? So if hitting play is mainly just like the motion, proper, from the hooked mannequin. Then after that, there’s gotta be a variable reward. And often with exercise streaming companies, you do get a little bit little bit of a reward. Clearly you be ok with your self and dopamine and endorphins, and issues like that from doing the exercise. However you additionally get a variety of detrimental, you get the ache of the exercise, you’re drained, you sacrificed time you possibly can have been doing one thing else.

, there’s the funding that they’ve given into this, and also you get one thing again from it. A whole lot of occasions, these streaming companies, as soon as once more, you may need invested into your monitoring, proper? So now I’ve received my streak, I’ve received some calorie burning there, and I’ve invested that. [00:22:00] After which there’s gotta be some sort of set off to convey them again, proper? So the entire thought is there’s a set off that brings you again into it.

Video games are actually good, particularly cell video games, proper? They’re so good about push notification; that you must come again in, as a result of that you must do that factor or this timer simply received finished. Or a standard sport you’re gonna play with your folks, or there’s a event or one thing enjoyable happening. Doing that motion after which getting that reward. The place, it seems like with Loodo, the aim, as with actually good Exergaming kind of techniques, is to finish that loop versus simply the motion section.

How do you’re feeling about that and,have you ever seen that, that appears to make sense?

That aligns with the best way I’m pondering as effectively. I believe Nir does some actually good things. If we’re speaking about behavioral design, my favourite, researcher is Ukai Chao, should you, get to learn his actionable insights.

Joshua Kozak: Yeah,I inform us this framework. So, very related in that understanding, how we are able to convey folks alongside, and actually simply get folks to carry out therequirements of the sport, which on this case is train, with out having a deep cognitive load about it.

, the factor I discussed, too, earlier… the massive downside with train is it takes too lengthy to see outcomes. On this manner, we are able to get you in, and 5 minutes in you’re seeing outcomes. You’re getting factors, you [00:23:00] leveled up, you went by means of like three, 4 achievements.

Like, “Oh, I noticed outcomes instantly.” And so there are completely different kind of outcome, however we’re already capable of reward. After which, the aim is that we get you in lengthy sufficient the place then like, “Holy cow, wait a minute, there’s an entire one other outcome occurring with my bodily actual physique right here, not simply within the app.”

So we now have to maintain folks hooked, if you’ll, to make use of like Nir’s phrase, lengthy sufficient to see these actual world outcomes. And that’s the facility the sort of design permits.

Preston Lewis: That’s such a very good level. We speak about that on a regular basis. It’s so true, as a result of even when you already know all the pieces about health and consuming, it takes so lengthy to truly see outcomes, proper? To really see that dopamine splash of progress. And as you guys are mentioning, video video games are the other, proper? You’re in Legends of Zelda or one thing, and you’ve got your little sword and also you hit the primary little chest and increase, first dopamine. After which with the ability to not solely observe that progress, however have the ability to string these little wins collectively.

I believe we’re all saying it, however that’s what we’re additionally seeing that’s probably the most highly effective with Exergaming, as a result of even in our private lives… a member of the family, proper? I’ve a variety of members of the family that know we’re within the health business they usually’re like, “Hey, are you able to please assist me [00:24:00] out?”

And prior to now it’s been like, okay, cool. “Right here’s your vitamin plan. Right here’s what that you must do each single day.” After which indisputably, with out fail, two weeks in, they’re like, ” I’m heavier on the size. What’s happening?” Becasue now they’re retaining water, they usually’re like, “I hand over.”

Joshua Kozak: Constructing muscle.

Yep. And so they don’t get it. And,to your guys’ level, the Exergaming aspect of that, permits us to shorten these suggestions loops and get folks hooked, to the place they give the impression of being down, possibly they’ve their abs coming in they usually’ve truly created a wholesome behavior. I’m gonna take thirty extra seconds on this, as a result of I can’t assist myself. . And simply say that, our brains 200 years in the past have been used to lengthy suggestions cycles, proper? We have been farming, we plant the seeds within the Spring and we harvest within the Fall. Like, we’re used to issues taking a very long time.

Every part takes a very long time. “I’ve been looking for every week and I haven’t caught something, as a result of I solely catch one thing as soon as each ten days. After which I get to fulfill no matter.” Proper? That’s the best way we have been programmed. However now, greater than ever, even the distinction in three to 4 years from Instagram being the primary high canine to TikTok being the primary high canine.

Even that’s like an immediate gratification change, proper? It’s simply quicker, and quicker, and quicker. So the best way that we’re wiring all of our [00:25:00] brains, inadvertently, shouldn’t be arrange for fulfillment in terms of expectations on train.

Preston Lewis: Nice level.

Properly, we lined a variety of nice stuff right now, actually respect it. However I’d like to complete up with, the place do you assume VR, AR health, Exergaming… the place’s it gonna go within the subsequent, three to 5 years? And what’s subsequent for you and Loodo? I believe actually, hopefully as we sort of alluded to shifting previous simply rhythm video games, and shifting into extra full-fledged video games, builders are gonna begin utilizing all of the instruments that they’ve accessible to them to evolve these health VR experiences.

Joshua Kozak: After which I believe, as this, let’s name it Nice Land Seize, New Land Seize, that at all times occurs with any new know-how, each train modality can be represented and gamified in a roundabout way, proper?

There’s gonna be a Pilates VR sport, there’s gonna be The Yoga, there’s gonna be The HIIT, so the person modalities will begin being represented. The sport can add worth to that modality. So I see that actually increasing.

After which once more, together with theadoption of VR, AR headsets know-how adopts, in parallel to it. And so what does that imply for Loodo? Properly, Loodo proper now could be in clearly the [00:26:00] early studying phases and we’re making an attempt to know exactlyhow we are able to leverage these sport mechanics that we’ve been speaking about to get folks movingwith cell, after which increasing to AR and VR experiences. I see a possibility for each of these. And once more, leaning in the direction of the house person, the person with restricted to no tools, simply making it the bottom barrier to entry, making it as accessible as doable. And for people who need to test it out, be taught extra, you may go to GetLoodo, that’s GetLoodo.com, to hitch the wait record.

Preston Lewis: Superior. That’s so nice. That’s on a regular basis we now have, we’re a little bit bit over, however such nice stuff. Actually respect you being right here. And to our viewers, as you already know, we’ll put the URL you talked about, Josh, within the present notes, in addition to anycontact info to get in contact with Josh.Thanks once more for being right here.

Ryan DeLuca: Yep. Actually respect it. You get this in a manner that I believe everyone’s gonna get it quickly, proper? Video video games, the psychology of video video games and these new applied sciences that permit us to make use of these applied sciences for health.

And, uh, be sure to get that Venmo in regards to the good phrase you mentioned about Black Field.

Joshua Kozak: I’ll get that over to you.

Ryan DeLuca: Yeah. Be sure that.

Joshua Kozak: It’s [00:27:00] been a pleasure, all. Thanks a lot.

Preston Lewis: Thanks a lot, Josh.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Have you learnt of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to electronic mail us at podcast vr health insider.com and observe us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. It’s also possible to be part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, hold creating and dreaming up the following huge factor that can revolutionize the world of health.